SDA Church Dispute Heads to Court
SDA church at Matatufu
Last month leaders of the SDA church in the South Pacific Division (SPD) met again in Australia with pastors from Samoa and Samoan pastors representing Samoan churches in New Zealand and Australia. The bible conference discussed the impasse in Samoa which is detrimental to a fundamental doctrine of the SDA church where there are now two seventh-day Sabbaths, some worshipping on Saturday and the majority worshipping on Sunday.
An outcome of the meeting is the matter to be referred to the Biblical Research Committee of the South Pacific Division for further research.
But in Samoa, the local church administration has instructed the law office of Schuster-Betham-Annandale to write to the Leauva’a-uta SDA members who are worshipping on Saturday to refrain from using the church facility there. The letter dated 6th February warns that failure to comply within 7 days will result in the matter been taken to the High Court for an order regarding ownership, demolition and removal by the church of assets.
Leauvaa-uta Sabbath keepers in front of their church building.
The letter from the lawyer however states that the church does not dispute the land belongs to the title Sala (held by Fonoti Peteli). This is further confirmed in a letter from the Register of the Lands and Titles Court stating the ownership of the land known as Laumasa is with Sala Fonoti Peteli and is not being disputed. The Register however goes further advising the parties involved to seek legal advice from lawyers in regards to dividing of church assets.
The SDA Sabbath dilemma in Samoa today centers around which day is the seventh-day of the week after the IDL change in 2011, the second time Samoa has changed its location to the IDL. Is it Saturday or Sunday?
Seventh-day Adventists keep the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week which is Saturday like everywhere else in the world. Most Christian churches in Samoa however also call Sunday the Sabbath but for a different reason – to commemorate the day of Jesus’ resurrection which falls on Sunday, the first day of the week.
On the TVNZ program Tagata Pasefika last year, President of the SDA church in Samoa, Pastor Uili Solofa stated that “now in Samoa, the seventh-day falls on Sunday.” The same argument was published in the Samoa Observer 1st July issue saying, “The practical result in terms of Sabbath keeping is that Sunday not Saturday has become the seventh day of the week.”
In a document dated 29th December 2011, Pastor Uili Solofa wrote,
“The majority of church leaders, worshippers and villages (in Samoa) are not saying they are happy that Seventh-day Adventists are keeping Sunday, instead what they are saying is that – we are going to keep the Sabbath of the Seventh-day Adventist church; praise God!”
In a separate correspondence, Pastor Uili Solofa also wrote, “You have to know that all the other Christian religions in Samoa have publicly testified that they have moved to keep the seventh–day Sabbath of the Bible.”
Catholic Chancellor Ono does not appear to share that view. Asked about casinos opening on Sunday, Father Ioane says that personally, he had no problems with it. “For Catholics or any Christian for that matter, Sunday is a day of rest, a day of giving thanks and praise to the Lord. It is also a day of joy and celebration because for the Catholic Church, Sunday is the day of resurrection of Jesus.” (Samoa Observer, March 12, 2013)
Such statements by SDA leaders in Samoa and the Pacific that Sunday is the “seventh-day” in Samoa today appear to contradict the reason Christian churches worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, to commemorate the day of Jesus’ resurrection.
Also see related articles: Leauvaa-uta Official Opening and Leauvaa-uta Church Members Continue to Meet on Sabbaths Despite Opposition
I find this mind-boggling: A church authority sends a letter to one of its constituent member churches warning “that failure to comply within 7 days will result in the matter been taken to the High Court for an order regarding ownership, demolition and removal by the church of assets” — especially when the order concerns meeting on the seventh-day Sabbath in a church for worship.
I’m glad to see that this threat has not yet been carried out. But I wonder what kind of power threatens demolition of a church building if worshippers will not stop worshipping in it?
Is this the voice of the dragon or the Lamb?
Would any church authority following in the footsteps of Christ ever threaten to demolish a church standing on private property because the worshippers “stubbornly refuse” to bow to its authority?
Or is this the voice of the dragon?
Would Christ approve of uttering such a threat even against Muslims worshipping in a former Adventist church?
Is this not the use of force to control conscience? Is that ever justified, according to Bible principles?
On a practical basis, I wonder if Samoan law would allow such damage to private property — for surely the demolition of a building results in considerable damage. I suppose clean-up and landscaping after demolition would repair the damage. But I imagine it would require a quite an outlay of capital to accomplish demolition, clean-up and landscaping — just to “punish” fellow believers who do not agree that the Samoan government “renamed the days of the week.”
Perhaps some Samoan brothers and sisters can shed light on this?
Malo Inge,
The situation today in Samoa where SDAs are worshipping on two Sabbaths is already a huge embarrassment and something people are openly joking about.
Church asset disputes:
The actions by the STM to engage a lawyer to instruct the Leauva’a-uta sabbathkeepers to refrain from using the church or else go to court to divide up church assets with the option of demolishing the church is a bigger embarrassment to the SDA church.
Going to court will only open up all the cans of worms for the world to see; the media will have a field day. With Samoans around the world, the media will be circulating far and wide.
If the STM is successful and the Leauva’a-uta sabbathkeepers decides to take the church down and split the building materials. How does that look for the SDA church when Catholic, EFKS, Methodist, LDS, AOG and more are popping up everywhere. Another bigger story for the media. By the way most of these denominations own TV and radio stations ………….
Should sabbathkeepers be disfellowshipped:
Many of the families on whose lands the churches stand have generally contributed the lion’s share to the building of the churches. Thus they should justifiably retain the “lion’s share” of the assets, should they not?” It’s time to go to court …..
So what’s stopping sabbathkeepers from making a claim on all SDA church buildings that they contributed financially to? This will translate to more court cases! More embarrassing media coverage and more damage to the SDA church in Samoa.
Alofa atu,
Pa’u ****
I want to make some comments regarding the letter by the Samoan Mission. The church will only be successful if the legal title to the land and property is held with the church. If it is held by someone else, the church should simply move on. In the Pacific with the exception of few countries like PNG, Solomon Islands and Fiji, the legal title to most or all properties of the church is in an entity called ACA (Australasian Conference Association). If the legal title to the church that is debated on this page is with ACA, the local congregation will not win the case in court.
From a person point of view, if the Samoa Mission has written a letter to the local church, they will not do this without knowing the legal title to the church. They would have seek clarification from SPD regarding the title to the property. What the Mission is doing is to make it clear that either you are with the Seventh Day Adventist Church or not. There is nothing wrong with the Mission action. Any denomination nowaday will defend its right. The local congregation of this church is causing problems to the church. They are using the church name which is a registered name in Samoa for their own benefit. This is like trading in business using another company’s name. The law prohibit this behaviour. If the local congregation persist in their belief, they should register their own business name and operate under it.
Thanks.
Tukia.
Hi Tukia,
You wrote:
What the mission is doing is making it clear that you either worship on sunday or we will spend mission tithes and offerings on legal fees in order to destroy your church, (because the Saturday Sabbath keepers are blamed for the unease that is growing among churches in their continued sunday worship in these end times) The apostacy of convenience and compromise will never be comfortable, because the Spirit of God will keep prompting against it.
We are plainly told in 1 Corinthians 6 not to sue the brethren, not to present court cases in front of unbelievers. When will a sleeping church mission wake up and realise that they are fighting God and HIS eternal truth in their human nature.
Has the church become a business? What is it trading in? Demolition materials or souls for God’s eternal kingdom?
We read the old testament and the stories of the Israelites — time and time and time again over and over, God’s chosen people turn their backs on God. Reading we wonder at their stupidity. (How could they live through all the miracles? How could the leaders lead them into famine and war?) All they had to do was love and worship the only true God of the universe and they would live in HIS blessings. But, no, they wanted to be like the other nations, they put worldly priorities ahead of their relationship with God.
The exact same attitudes and priorities override Gods blessings today, business and sport can be embraced ahead of God on HIS Sabbath day, and a people follow like sheep because the church has endorsed it. The Israelites persecuted and killed the prophets because they made them feel uncomfortable in their sins. How will the sunday worshipping Seventh-day Adventists stand when sunday laws are introduced? At the close of probation how many will change their whole life styles to honour and worship on God’s sign between HIM and HIS remnant people? Big decisions are ahead for a lot of people here in the islands,
Hi Lance,
How do you resolve this issue if the local church in Samoa is so determined in there minds and hearts to oppose the decision made by the controlling body of the church. There is no other way but to separate and the matter may have to be resolved in a court of law if it has to.
You may disagree but the church is run and operate like any other organisation. The SDA Church is run and operated under certain regulations, policies and principles. For your information, the church in Australia (and will happen in the islands) have been incorporated as a company and its conduct is governed by the companies ACT of Australia. The church may not be selling a physical product but it is selling a service to its members.
The decision made by the SPD was not done without consultation. Before the actual event happened, certain officers of the SPD went to Samoa to discuss the issue with the administrators of the church in Samoa. The decision was also supported by the General Conference. It was a careful and thoughtful decision based on the teaching of the bible to keep the 7th day of the week as the sabbath day rather than the name of the day as most of you are holding on to.
If the church has to go to court to resolve this issue so what. The advice in the book of Corinthians can only work if the opposing group is willing to co-operate. From the information I read on this site the legal title to the local church in Samoa is not with the church and therefore, the church should move on because they will not win. However, if the SDA church in Samoa decide to disconnect itself from this local church base on legal matters, the local congregation cannot continue to use the name Seventh Day Adventist. They will have to use a different name to operate.
My suggestion, if the members of this church determined not to support the decision made by SPD, they should join another denomination or form their own church.
Hi Leny,
I very much doubt that the church would want to take the issue of who are the real Seventh-day Adventists in Samoa (The Saturday Sabbath keepers or the Sunday “Sabbath” keepers) to a court of law.
As many would be aware there has been discussion of registering as a separate entity by a few of us Sabbath keepers. These discussions have been opposed by most. Advice is that a court case would be very positive for Saturday Sabbath keepers but it would cause major bleeding and media embarrassment to a church that we love.
Our purpose for standing for God’s true Sabbath was never the destruction of and pain to God’s end-time church.
You wrote:
I was here in Samoa and heard the one-sided argument presented to the churches of the Samoan mission. The 7-day cycle since creation was a major selling point. The group of palangi scholars, who portrayed that they had studied this issue for 8 years, were not up-front that the Sabbath here in Samoa was in truth only in a 7-day cycle since 1892, when a day was added to one week. (IT’S NOT THE 7-DAY CYCLE SINCE CREATION.) In all the confusion and misunderstanding I asked Paul Cavanagh a question. “If the date line and meridian line are man-made, can we trust in promoting God’s Sabbath to now be Sunday? His answer was that the meridian line was God-inspired because God is a God of order. After that meeting my mum now believes that the meridian line was set in place by God at creation.
Understandably, most SDA church members (including my mum) can’t accept that the SPD could be wrong, and they grasp at every silly little reason that is presented to cover up obvious error.
You wrote:
THe SPD has lost its way. They think like a company and they act like a company. It seems to me that what they have done to Samoa and the islands is apostasy and is totally against God’s will. God is in control and HIS will be done.
I know the leaders in the Samoan mission who were railroaded into this apostasy, and I feel sorry for them.
Hi Lance,
We can continue to argue who is right and will never end. I support if you want to register your own organisation so you can freely worship your God with free conscience. The “Independent” has done this in the past and the church has come through a number of legal case and still come out winners. In this case the church cannot win the right to the property of the local church in Samoa but they can defend the right of this local church in Samoa to use the name “Seventh Day Adventist Church” which is a legal name.
Hello Leny,
It comes back to who are the real Seventh-day Adventists in Samoa: Are they the ones that choose to worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, along with the Catholics, the Methods, the Baptists, etc., or are they the ones who worship on Saturday, the seventh day on the local calendar, as do the members of the world-wide Seventh-day Adventist church?
Are the real Seventh-day Adventists the ones who worship on Saturday, March 30 (nearly 20 millions of them), or are they the ones who worship on Sunday, March 31 (less than 10,000 world-wide).
Who are the real “independents” in this case?
What do you suppose a court would decide?
(It seems that now even SISDAC members are more in line with the Seventh-day Adventist Church world-wide than are those who worship on Sunday.)
Hi Leny Tukia,
You wrote:
Now that the SPD is run like a company I would have to ask how well is it run. A successful company would always have its goals to work towards.
As a Seventh Day Adventist I would say that the aim of the church is to reach as many souls as possible before the unification of churches and the false revival headed by the son of perdition. To present to the world the 3rd angel’s message, and to fund this through the tithe and offerings taken from members of the church.
IF THE CHURCH NOW AS A BUSINESS COMPANY HAS OTHER GOALS PLEASE MAKE THESE KNOWN TO US SATURDAY SABBATH KEEPERS AND THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE!
A successful company will never try and force change and will always realise the importance of man management. Let’s just look at a few business decisions made to date.
(1)The whole basis of this church business has been to tell the world that Gods Sabbath needs to be honoured, and that Sunday worship is the devil’s alternative (fail). The SPD is now enforcing Sunday worship.
(2)The 3rd angel’s message is to be preached to all the world, calling people out of Babylon (fail). How can you preach the 3rd angel’s message when the mission itself is worshiping on Sunday?
(3) When there is a difference of opinion in this church business, get the parties together and the resulting dialogue will bring compromise and insight (fail). The day that the Saturday Sabbath Keepers stood for God’s true Sabbath, they were barred from their churches, told they were worshiping another god and that they would receive no pastoral care. (Bad for the tithe take)
(4) Now the SDA business executive tells other churches in Samoa that they are now worshiping on the true Sabbath (fail). Why go to an SDA church when a Catholic or EFKS church is closer and it doesn’t take all day? (Not good for the tithe take)
(5)Now that the tithe take is right down, the church business sends out legal letters threatening to demolish churches if Saturday Sabbath church members continue worshiping in them on Saturday (fail). What on earth is this church business hoping to achieve?
(6) Threaten to sue members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church who are in reality worshiping on and standing for God’s end-time sign between HIM and HIS remnant people (fail). What a waste of tithe take that is disappearing fast, because the church has decided to become a business.
The church business needs to stand again in God’s truth, confront the mistakes made 100 years ago in Tonga. Stop amalgamating with the devil’s false worship. Stop watering down God’s end-time message! Stop hiding behind some so-called group of scholars who were paid for 8 years to put together such a proposal so full of errors and so destructive to the church missions.
This would never have been allowed to happen in Australia or New Zealand.
Leny Tukia, I am sorry I am at a disadvantage with yourself as I have no idea who you are or how you fit into the whole big picture. Maybe you don’t, and are just like so many who believe that the SPD could never get this so wrong.
Blessings from Samoa,
Lance Cutts
I cannot continue to argue with you because your theology is totally wrong. The church members in Samoa are not worshipping on Sunday as you mentioned. They worship on the 7th day of the week which is the sabbath day. The bible is very clear on this. We are to keep the seventh day of the week as the sabbath day regardless of its name. Remember Samoa miss one day (Friday) when it jump from a Thursday to Saturday. This is how it happenned.
1st day – Sunday(25/12/11)
2nd day – Monday(26/12/11)
3rd day – Tuesday(27/12/11)
4th day – Wednesday(28/12/11)
5th day – Thursday(29/12/11)
6th day – Saturday(31/12/11)
7th day – Sunday(1/1/12)
Yes, Tukia, this also happened a long time ago, when the “church” was the nation of Israel. Another leader, Ahab by name, made it clear that another dissident, called Elijah the Tishbite, was making trouble for the church. Hmm…
Hi R G White,
I think you are using the story of Ahab out of context here. There is nothing wrong with the decision made by SPD. Basically, your sabbath is based on the name of the day rather than the 7th day of the week.
Hi Leny,
I find your assumptions to be false. I have carefully examined this question from seemingly every possible angle, and I have found that the Sabbath of the LORD does indeed fall on Saturday (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) everywhere in the world. This is no thoughtless assumption, on my part, but a studied conclusion, and not so very difficult to see.
1) The names of the days of the week imply numbers. That is, calling a day “Saturday” also amounts to calling it the 7th day of the week.
2) The whole world — to the extent that it speaks English — decides which day to call “Saturday” (the 7th day) in any island group, on the basis of the International Date Line.
3) The SPD Sunday advocates decide which day to call the 7th day (i.e. the Sabbath) on the basis of a private day line, the 180-degree anti-meridian.
Therefore, if correct Sabbath observance necessitates using the meridian as a private day line, then the true Sabbath cannot always be what the whole world calls Saturday. However, if in fact correct Sabbath observance requires us to honour the International Date Line, then the true Sabbath must always be Saturday.
God made His Sabbath for a round world, which means that He really created the day line. He did not fail to anticipate any of the developments which have taken place in our world. Rather, it is evident that He chose to let the day line of His own creation develop naturally, and that He intended to allow today’s governments to determine its location by their collective decisions.
Insisting on using the 180-degree anti-meridian as a private day line, as the SPD has done, strikes me as a blatant (if well-intentioned) attempt at playing God. After all, who but God has the authority to overrule government decisions? It seems some people are SO VERY UNHAPPY with God’s decision NOT to impose a fixed location for the day line, that they intend to do it for Him. And, in doing so, not only have they sought to use church authority to essentially choose their own Sabbath in certain island groups, but that “Sabbath” has turned out to be the false sabbath of the very papal power whose principles they seem to have adopted.
So you see, sometimes the simple and obvious answer actually turns out to be the right answer. I find the Ahab parallel quite valid indeed. Samoa’s Saturday Sabbath keepers have not troubled the church. The SPD leadership has troubled the church by pushing their own policy-driven agenda.
Jesus said by the “fruit” we can know if something or someone is true to God. The decision to keep Sunday in Samoa has born fruit that has turned a church-planting denomination into a church-demolishing denomination. Hopefully this decision will be reversed before the demolition starts! We need to pray . . .
Talofa Tukia
You noted “The church [Samoa Mission] will only be successful if the legal title to the land and property is held [by] the church. If it is held by someone else, the church should simply move on”. By letter dated 04/04/2013 (meant to be March 4, 2013), Samoa’s Ministry of Justice and Court Administration confirmed to the disputing parties that the land in issue is owned by Chief Salā Fonoti Peteli P. For your further information, the property is neither licensed nor leased to the Samoa Mission either. Therefore, the Samoa Mission does not have legal title or occupational rights to the property, and as you stated, should move on.
As you would no doubt be well aware, the name Seventh-day Adventist is the global name for the church – not just in Samoa. The Saturday Sabbath-keepers in Samoa are members of the Samoa, American Samoa Tokelau Mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Accordingly, the Saturday Sabbath-keepers in Samoa are locally and globally Seventh-day Adventists. Therefore, they have the legitimate and lawful right to be called Seventh-day Adventists and to use the church’s official name.
By the way, these church members are observing Sabbath on the 7th day of the week (which falls on Saturday) in obedience to God and in compliance with the global church’s position stated by General Conference in Session as recorded in the Church Manual and the church’s Fundamental Beliefs. The General Conference in Session as you would be aware, is the highest authority of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church
Hi Tasi,
Thank you for clarifying the legal title to the property. In that case, the church in Samoa should move on but this will be a lesson to them to ensure that local property are either registered under the SDA Church name or leased.
In my point of view, I will not call the saturday sabbath keepers Seventh Day Adventist Church members because they are determine to oppose the decision made by the controlling body of the SDA Church in the South Pacific. They should join another denomination or form their own church so they can do what they believe in.
If the SDA Church has to disconnect itself from this local church legally, they cannot continue to use the name Seventh Day Adventist Church.
Dear Leny,
I appreciate your forthright approach. On the other hand, are you quite sure that the two sides in this disagreement are both so deeply entrenched that reconciliation is impossible? So far, Samoa’s Saturday Sabbath keepers have been able to retain their denominational membership, notwithstanding they are denied any of its present benefits. Are you advocating that the church organisation take the fatal step of formally throwing them out?
If so, I have two questions for you:
1) If Samoa’s Saturday Sabbath keepers were completely pushed out the door of the SDA Church, so to speak, do you think that only the Samoa membership would be affected?
2) Where does God fit into the picture, in your view? How do you view His relation to the church? Is yours a Roman Catholic kind of view, that church leaders may do as they please and God must abide by their decisions, or is it just possible that He might be offended by their actions?
Hi R G White,
How sure you are that the situation in Samoa will be solved easily. From all corresponds on this page, it appears the local church in Samoa is determine not to surrender. Unless they show some signs that they support the administrator of the church in Samoa, I don’t see any reason why they should remain part of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. They are causing problems to the Samoa Mission and they will continue to cause more problems in the future. The only solution is to cut all connection with them.
My answers to your questions
1. It may affect some members of the Adventist Samoans overseas but it will be the best thing for the Samoa Mission to do. The SDA church has encountered so many opposition in the past and it still stand today. For example, the “Independant group”. When this problem started people even adventist members were so supportive of this group and thinking the SDA Church will fail. After so many years from now, the SDA Church is still operating and growing in numbers but I haven’t heard the independent is growing. This is one of many example. The church may be affected in some way but not in a significant way.
2. Let me remind you that the church leaders are not doing as they please. They based their decision on the bible. It is only you and others who think the decision made by the SPD is wrong. If the church has to cut all connection, it will be to the good of the SDA Church worldwide because the church need unity.
Dear Leny,
Again, I appreciate your frankness, if not your position. You speak of “independent groups.” However, I believe that this is a rather shallow comparison which (intentionally or unintentionally) overlooks one vitally important difference.
The “independent groups” of the past have, I believe without exception, been founded on false doctrine and a spirit of disaffection toward the main body of believers which make up the church. Therefore, they have had little power to prevail against God’s church.
What I believe we are now seeing in Samoa is of an entirely different character. In this case, the very leadership of the church has adopted a mistaken view and practice in regard to one of the Ten Commandments of God. Therefore, those who see the matter in its true light have been conscience bound to do what they know to be right, and to leave the consequences with God.
This brings me to the fact that you really have not answered my second question. In your view, where does God fit into all of this? Therefore, I shall give you my answer.
While I have no doubt that disloyalty to the church (of which you continue to falsely accuse Samoa’s Saturday Sabbath keepers) would constitute disloyalty to God, I am equally sure that loyalty to God constitutes loyalty to His church. Therefore, I believe that you are suggesting the church cut itself off from many of its most loyal members — in Samoa, and perhaps elsewhere. If your suggestion were to be followed, little could any of us anticipate the likely consequences of the Seventh-day Adventist Church thus cutting itself off from Christ, in the person of His saints.
I truly agree with all the posts above. I cannot even begin to image how a leader who is supposed to represent our churches by standing for the TRUTH and nothing else but the TRUTH, can openly and embarrassingly open his mouth and utter disturbing words quoted as “The majority of church leaders, worshippers and villages (in Samoa) are not saying they are happy that Seventh-day Adventists are keeping Sunday, instead what they are saying is that – we are going to keep the Sabbath of the Seventh-day Adventist church; praise God!” The biblical cycle has never changed despite man playing around with dates.
Many are called but a few are chosen. Just because the majority have decided to bow down to the idle with the blessing of the leader(s) does not mean that they are right before the eyes of God. Daniel 7: 25 says “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time”.
When times and laws are changed, it is the very time when Christian Sabbath keepers should stand firm and hold on to THE TRUTH and not be bullied into keeping the wrong Sabbath which is not according to God’s weekly cycle.
With regards to the building being demolished, I surely think its a step gone too far. This just shows you that the bible is true when it says ” many are called but a few are chosen” – Out of that big church, only a handful faithful people are willing to stand for the truth while the majority blindly follow an endorsement by the leaders.
It’s not the leaders who will get you a place in heaven. Salvation is personal and I pray that the leaders will re-think and enquire from God alone to reveal to them the truth in order for them to go back and tell the people the truth.
Let them take the building or even destroy it but one thing they should know is that this is The Church of God – not the leaders or the other members who are now in error about the TRUE Sabbath day. The fact is one day they will harvest the fruits of retribution for no man can trample upon His church.
God is seeking TRUE Christians, who are followers of God’s Word.
The SDA Church is experiencing the first strokes of Elohim’s judgements and this is simply a foretaste of the SHAKING that is already rumbling within the walls of this church denomination. During the past few years, countless many people have been proclaiming to delegates of the church and to the laity the world over that the sabbath cannot be found on the pagan/papal man-made calendar of Rome but upon His calendar of Appointed Times as revealed in Leviticus 23. Sadly, these faithful messengers of Elohim have been reviled and mocked for the unpopular truth that they have borne to the church and they are labelled “Lunatics,” “Lunar Sabbatarians” etc.
The truth of the matter is, this message is the message that was to select the wheat from the chaff and gather it for the heavenly garner. The SDA Church had corporately rejected the message as in 1888 and now the Church in Samoa is embroiled in a legal battle which could have been avoided had the message been embraced with joyful thankfulness…
A worse situation is coming to SHAKE the church and the whole structure will crumble. A Papal Calendar Reform Decree establishing a Common/Fixed Date for Easter is in the works, and when the decree goes forth, the new Sunday will fall where Saturday currently stands….creating a worse dilemma for the worldwide church which has rejected the light on the true Sabbath, because this will be the prophesied MARK OF THE BEAST, which will unite Jews, Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox and other Sabbatarian groups including SDA’s under ONE ecumenical worship day…ON SUNDAY!
The church rejected the sealing message and Elohim will let all rejectors of light to bare the consequences of not receiving His Sabbath Seal.
In His Love & Service
I am not a calendar expert but have read some of the issues involved regarding the lunisolar calendars. Firstly lunisolar calendars were used by a number of cultures throughout history, usually in association with agriculture. The Jews did keep a lunisolar calendar. However, if I read secular sources correctly it would appear that the weekly cycle was separate to the lonisolar calendar. In fact some effort was made to ensure that events associated with the lunisolar calendar did not conflict with the Sabbath.
While I think that the lunisolar calendar issue deserves some further study, my guess is that it has little impact on the timing of Sabbath keeping in general.
We have received a number of comments on this site recommending a luni-solar calendar as the solution to the South Pacific Sabbath Dilemma. It seems to be to us an indicator of the confusion caused by the arguments published on the SPD site which includes claims that Saturday is not the correct Sabbath in the South Pacific, with complicated arguments to support the claim.
In fact, there appears to be a movement within Adventism to institute a type of lunar Sabbath calendar.
It seems to us that an excerpt from the M. L. Andreasen letter to the study committee that favored the adoption of a luni-solar calendar has a lot of merit today. He wrote:
Please note that, aside from the plea for simplicity, which is equally applicable to the South Pacific Sabbath Dilemma today, the luni-solar calender considered by a committee of Seventh-day Adventists chaired by L.E. Froom in 1939 did not “in any way affect the succession of the days of the week” and thus did “not not affect the Sabbath.” Thus the current appeal to a supposed Seventh-day Adventist luni-solar calendar that would result in a different day of worship than currently observed in the Seventh-day Adventist church world-wide is a false appeal.
For Seventh-day Adventists world-wide the day of worship is the seventh day of the week, commonly known as Saturday, except for some islands in the South Pacific Division for which some leaders of the Division are advocating Sunday observance.
It is our considered opinion that these leaders and the people who follow them do not represent the Seventh-day Adventist church world-wide and that those who keep the seventh-day Sabbath (Saturday) on these islands are actually the people who can most believably claim to be Seventh-day Adventists, rather than First-day Adventists.
Finally, while the luni-solar calendar discussion is appropriate for this site, and we will eventually address it, it is not appropriate for the subject of this post, and thus no further comments on the matter will be published under this post.
our GOD is not a God of disorder –I shall send you the comforter who shall lead you in all truths ..those who worship Him in spirit and truths are the ones whom He looks for
Hi Inge,
The answer to your question who are the real Seventh Day Adventist is a matter of legal issue because the name Seventh Day Adventist is a legal name of which the SPD and Samoa Mission is under. If the SDA Church decide to cut off relationship with this Saturday sabbath keepers in Samoa, you cannot continue to use the name “Seventh Day Adventist” in any dealings because it will be a misreprentation in a court of law. It does not matter if you think you the Saturday sabbath keepers are the real Adventist. The law does not think that way because the organisation called “Seventh Day Adventist” is a global name registered in every country its operate around the world.
Hi R White,
I don’t know what else the SDA Church can do to persuade the Saturday sabbath keepers to believe what the SPD has recommended. There is no point arguing over this because it will not get anywhere. The fact is simple, why don’t you and your Saturday sabbath keepers move out and start your own church. It seem you have not addressed me on this directly. If you think the SPD is wrong, move out and start your own church and see if you will be successful. Stop criticising SPD because there decision was not made alone, it was made with support from the GC. This issue was discussed during the Mini Bible Conference at SPD and there was no solid evidence to convince the SPD to reverse the decision made in Samoa.
Dear Leny,
You wrote:
Actually, I have. That was the intent of my question in regard to where God fits into the picture. Those few SPD leaders who are advocating Sunday observance cannot convince us that they are right, for the simple fact that they are clearly mistaken. Those few men do not constitute “the SDA Church,” as you seem to be suggesting.
For those who are standing up for the seventh-day Sabbath as distinguished from Sunday, there seems little point in your inviting them to leave God’s church and start their own. Such a move would seem far more appropriate for those who are advocating Sunday as the “Sabbath.”
You have been making such statements as “the SPD decision was based on the Bible” and “there was no solid evidence to convince the SPD to reverse the decision.” I have not directly addressed these kinds of statements, simply because no sound biblical basis has ever been shown for the SPD decision, and much solid evidence against it has already been presented. Thus your statements strike me as somewhat absurd.
Hi R G White,
You can continue to present your view but nothing will be changed. SPD is the body that control the work of the SDA Church in the Pacific and GC is in full support of the SPD stand. The message is very clear. If you are unhappy look for another church. Those of you who are supporting the Saturday sabbath keepers are the minory. You are not in control of the organisation called SDA Church so you are fighting a losing batle. You are the one that should be leaving because soon or later the Samoa Mission will cut off any relationship with the Saturday sabbath keepers.
Dear Brother Tukia,
I read and mulled over the theme of your recent posts that amount to an ultimatum for those of our Brethren who before December 29, 2012, were happy in unison with Jesus and ALL who obeyed His commandment and kept the Seventh-Day Sabbath, and, who in the minority today, stand for what they believe to be truth continuing to keep the Seventh-Day Sabbath Holy. Now, because of the SPD sunday-worship edict, your advice to these people, in essence is either accept “SPD way or the highway”, which deeply saddens me because I believe Jesus, in spite of the current state of confusion as a consequence of the SPD edict, will NOT give up on His people.
I say this in reference to this past week’s Sabbath School lesson and God’s persistent pursuit of His wayward children of Israel, who rightly deserved in our human judgment, to be left to their own devices and perish for their unfaithfulness, BUT, incredibly, He never gave up on them! In the beautiful verse from Hosea 2:14, God in His love for His children, appeals to them, woos them, takes them to a quiet place so He can “speak comfort” to them. Now, given that God looks over His children in Samoa, whether Seventh-Day Sabbath keeper or sunday-worshiper, and I believe, showing His mercy as God’s Word tell us here in Hosea, should you or me, also a child of God, act with any less compassion, in spite of our differences? I think not, BUT, that whilst in open and transparent God inspired dialogue, should fall on our knees in prayerful pleading, daily, for His Holy Fire and Holy Mercy, for restoration and unity, in obedience to God’s Word.
Hosea 2:14
God’s Mercy on His People
14 “Therefore, behold, I will allure her,
Will bring her into the wilderness,
And speak comfort to her.
There is as we ALL know, only one Seventh-Day Sabbath, as Genesis 2:1-3 tells us and this is found after preparation day; Mark 15:42, and before the 1st-day of the week; Matthew 28:1. Now according to how we, today, globally, measure the days of the week and call these days by name, these days are in sequence according to God’s Word; Preparation Day – Friday, Sabbath Day – Saturday and the 1st-day of the week, Sunday.
My question to you is, why should the SPD and supporters of sunday-worship, employ a double-standard both in terms of how you interpret God’s Word and how the week is measured by day and name, for the majority of the Seventh-Day Adventists global community, who in unison worshipped on the Seventh-Day, today, Saturday, 6th April and for the very minority of our brethren in Samoa, Tonga and other such Pacific Islands, force them to worship on Sunday, 7th April and call it the Seventh-Day Sabbath? This is what the SPD sunday-worship edict amounts to, what do you think?
God’s rich blessings to you and us ALL as we seek God’s leading and restoration of His Children in Samoa, for His glory and according to His will.
ulalei
What I read above is rather disturbing to me.
One comment:
For years people have been sending me material that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is on the wrong track and when the final crises comes it will promote Sunday and give up the Sabbath. For those same years I have defended the church believing it would be the Laodicean members that would give up the Sabbath and be sifted out of the church and accept Sunday, but that the church itself would go through.
Even now in the Samoan Issue, my comfort was the belief that the General Conference did NOT endorse the Sunday worship in the Islands, though they left it for the SPD to sort out.
It has always been my hope and prayer that the GC (maybe at the next GC session when delegates from all over the world will be assembled) will stand up and hold the Sabbath banner high (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and we as a Sabbath keeping church will all keep the 7th-day Sabbath (Sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday) all over the world.
But now I read that the GC stands behind the Sunday keeping in the Islands? Is that really true?
You see, this isn’t just a Samoan problem. There are people who are not Samoan who are watching as this PRE-TEST evolves. Where will the organized church stand? Will they hold the 7th-day Sabbath banner high, or will they be uplifting the papal banner with SUNDAY as the sabbath?
Will they set forth the 7th-day Sabbath as Holy unto God. Or will they slowly allow leadership to impose, encourage and enforce Sunday worship in various regions where ever they can try to form a logical reason for doing so?
Will my church stand strong and uphold the seventh-day Sabbath (Friday sunset to Saturday Sunset) or will they join the other denominations and impose, enforce and encourage Sunday worship?
So you see — statements saying the organized church is enforcing Sunday as the sabbath is a very troubling issue — and when this is coupled with statements that they have the power to do this and expect all to comply with Sunday worship, or to leave the church it is quite troubling.
To say that those who observe the 7th-day Sabbath need to leave and give up the name “Seventh-day Adventist” — is very frightening indeed.
Isn’t that what the last day crisis is all about?
It’s OK, the end time persecution will come and all the nominal SDA’s will soon fall away like so much chaff from the wheat. Come Lord Jesus.
The longer the keeping of Sunday continues in the Pacific, the deeper the hole that the SPD is digging for itself.
The first question a court would ask when trying to decide who are the real Seventh-day Adventists is: “Which day do they observe as the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday?”
I say bring it on.
The SPD’s answer to that question would be; “the 7th day of the week on the calendar that is a government property. The longer this people oppose to the right decision made by the SPD, the deeper the hole they are currently in and eventually will be impossible to digg their way out when they finally come to their senses. Now is the time to set aside the pride and political correctness and let the Holy Spirit rule in the mind. It takes a big heart to recognize and make a humble u-turn.
Hi Leny Tukia
again in promoting the 7 day cycle since creation deception you wrote
1st day – Sunday(25/12/11)
2nd day – Monday(26/12/11)
3rd day – Tuesday(27/12/11)
4th day – Wednesday(28/12/11)
5th day – Thursday(29/12/11)
6th day – Saturday(31/12/11)
7th day – Sunday(1/1/12)
What you forgot to include was the week in 1892
1st day sunday (3/7/1892)
2nd day monday (4/7/1892)
3rd day monday (4/7/1892)
4th day tuesday(5/7/1892)
5th day wednesday(6/7/1982)
6th day thursday (7/7/1982)
7th day friday (8/7/1982)
8th day saturday (9/7/1982)
Now which is the 7TH DAY SABBATH SINCE CREATION is it the 7th day that was before a day was added in July 1892 or is it the 7th day of the week after July 1892( which would make it 120 years old.
Lets remember that both of these 2 weeks in reality had 7 days (not 8 or 6) The adjustment is in the daylight hours compared to the hours of darkness in each day.
Does God want us worshipping on the Saturday Sabbath and as a peculiar people we witness our relationship with HIM,or does God want us amalgamated with the world with no different endtime message to share.
A lot of people every week are returning to Gods true Sabbath but sadly the mission and the SPD will only publish one sided facts and you will
Hi Lance,
In 1982 the sabbath day will be the Friday 8/7/1982. The bible is very clear on the sabbath. The 7th day of the week is the sabbath day. We must count to number 7th and that is the sabbath. Again your theology is wrong.
Leny, are you seriously saying that in 1982, the Sabbath was on Friday? And you say the Bible is clear on that?
Now, even if that was a typo and you meant 1892, that still means you are saying that for 120 years the church in Samoa should have been keeping Friday. And, by your reasoning, those who are keeping Saturday today are keeping the correct Sabbath.
Any child can count to 7, but that doesn’t fix the Sabbath date. What matters is on what day you start counting. So how do you know on which day to start counting?
Brother Lance Cutts,
This is what you mention above:
“What you forgot to include was the week in 1892
1st day sunday (3/7/1892)
2nd day monday (4/7/1892)
3rd day monday (4/7/1892)
4th day tuesday(5/7/1892)
5th day wednesday(6/7/1982)
6th day thursday (7/7/1982)
7th day friday (8/7/1982)
8th day saturday (9/7/1982)
Brother, it appears to me that you are confused. You started with 1892 and ended up with 1982.
My comment for your example above is, because it was to CORRECT AN ERROR like what Malietoa stated in the many many quotes I gave before, the two Mondays (July 4 & July 4) should not be 2nd day & 3rd Day (this is WRONG). It should be 2nd day & 2nd day (just like Monday & Monday; and 4th July & 4th July).
The CORRECT one to CORRECT THE ERROR should be:
1st day sunday (3/7/1892) – STILL IN ERROR
2nd day monday (4/7/1892) – CORRECTION
2nd day monday (4/7/1892) – CORRECTION
3rd day tuesday(5/7/1892) – CORRECT DAY NOW
4th day wednesday (6/7/1892) – CORRECT DAY NOW
5th day thursday (7/7/1892) – CORRECT DAY NOW
6th day friday (8/7/1892) – CORRECT DAY NOW
7th day saturday (9/7/1892) – CORRECT DAY NOW
After this change, THE ERROR WAS CORRECTED. The day that used to be called Sunday before July 4 1892 was changed to Saturday, to correct that error of reckoning of days. That same 24 hours that was called SUNDAY before July 4 1892 was called SATURDAY after July 4 1892.
The change of December 2011 REVERSED what happened in 1892.
God Bless…brother Steve
Dear Brother Steve,
I find it interesting how you use the names of the day of the week and align them to the corresponding dates, as you correct brother Lance, yet when it comes to qualifying the keeping and measuring of the 1-7-days according the universal calendar, which identifies the names of the days of the 1-7-day week, you conveniently discard it to suit your argument. I also find that your supporting of the names of the days of the 1-7-day week and dates, actually validates that whether keeping Asian and American time-reckoning, is in fact accordingly to the universal calendar, thereby refuting the authenticity of the SPD imposed calendar. In doing so, you are agreeing with the fact that the Seventh-Day Sabbath this past week globally, was Saturday, 6th April, which repudiates the SPD sunday-worship edict that promotes error insisting that sunday 7th April, the 1st-day of the week, as the Seventh-Day Sabbath.
In your obvious haste to point out brother Lance’s typing error of the year e.g. 1982 instead of 1892, you said, “Brother, it appears to me that you are confused. You started with 1892 and ended up with 1982”. Indeed, I do wonder as to who it is that is confused about the truth of God’s Word regarding the Seventh-Day Sabbath and the ease of your inconsistency with the application of the measure of the 1-7-day week and the corresponding names and dates of these days; according to the universal calendar.
Blessings, ulalei
Brother Ulalei,
Thank you for your comments and information about the universal calendar.
Your arguments in regards to the Universal Calendar is like the dialogue about the TRINITY. You are saying 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 BUT I am saying 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 (Father + Son + Holy Spirit = ONE GOD).
Enough said, God Bless…brother Steve
In response to Brother Steve’s argument, I am waiting to see any evidence that there was ever an “error” to correct — not evidence that the king of Samoa believed that he was correcting an error in 1892, but evidence that he really was correcting an error.
Quite obviously, the whole notion of an “error” is based on the assumption that the correct reckoning of the days, in any given place, is dependent on the longitude of that place, and in which “hemisphere” it is found. However, my own review of the facts of law and history finds that this notion was never anything more or less than a popular misconception. Neither God nor international law has ever specified a fixed location for the day line — at the 180-degree anti-meridian or anywhere else. Therefore, the correct reckoning at any given place is based upon the decision of the society actually inhabiting that place, as represented by its duly appointed civil authorities, pertaining to its orientation relative to the day line.
Brother White,
Brother, if you have not seen the evidences of the “ERROR” in all of the many many many historical records that I gave you before than you just don’t want to SEE THEM.
The Lukewarm Church
14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Steve Teaupa wrote:
I am surprised that a Christian brother would thus venture to surmise my motives. Nevertheless, believing that he is really trying to understand, I shall explain.
All of those historical records indicate and prove just one thing: Very many people believed that the 180-degree anti-meridian is the true day line. However, it is entirely possible for popular misconceptions to exist. Mere opinion, no matter how popularly held, does not equal truth.
Today it has become rather obvious that the 180-degree anti-meridian and the International Date Line are two different things. Indeed, it is not at all difficult to research the respective origins of the two, and as it turns out, they are essentially unrelated to each other.
While the Greenwich observatory had already been in place for some time, and was already being used by the British and others as a prime meridian, it was the 1884 Meridian Conference that gave impetus to the eventual international acceptance of the Greenwich prime meridian. Thus, the meridian 180 degrees from Greenwich is also of rather modern origin. Nor is there any evidence in the Meridian Conference proceedings that ANY meridian was expected to be accepted as an international land-based day line.
Indeed, the facts of history make it crystal clear that the day line (known today as the International Date Line) was already known to have been in existence at least since Magellan’s crew first discovered the concept. The day line is defined by the composite of the reckonings followed in the various societal locations, and therefore must always have existed in some form for as long as there has been a 7th-day Sabbath.
So, it doesn’t matter what strange opinions may have become popular in the 19th century, what failed efforts may have been made to move the day line to the location of the 180-degree meridian, nor how firmly the King of Samoa may have believed that he was correcting an error.
The facts speak for themselves. I am astonished that Steve would expect me to be impressed by mere opinions and popular misconceptions, no matter how well documented.
Hi brother Steve,
I feel so bad, and I just had to reply to say sorry. I can see how confusing it must be that I wrote 1982 instead of 1892. I being a just an old plumber my writing can get wayward when I rush things.
I do have a question if you dont mind.
Who ordered the correction in 1892? Was it the meridian club?
The 17 business men (traders) sent from California to influence Samoan leaders in 1892, did they want Samoa in line with their time for trading reasons?
Why was this a correction? Why was it not a time zone change for economic reasons just like Dec 2011 was?
In a court of law would you be able to call one a correction and easy to obey, while the second was a time zone change, which is totally different?
It is so easy to label something with intent to disguise and present it is alignment to suit ones arguement.
The simple facts in my eyes are that souls are being lost, our SDA churches are amalgamating in so many ways here in Samoa. Sunday law has been enforced in the islands for years now, God doesnt call us to take the easy road of compromise and complacency, HE calls us to stand firm in HIS truth and shout from the roof tops that HE is Lord of the Sabbath, and the Sabbath is HIS endtime seal.
Steve your motives may be to protect members who have chosen sunday worship through direction from a scholars and leaders, but the arguements for sunday worship are getting weaker and weaker and stubborn leaders are doing no salvation favours to islanders who respect leaders so much in their culture.
Blessings from Samoa
Lance Cutts
To brother Lance Cutts,
I am so sorry for making you feel so bad with my comments about 1892 & 1982. I was just using them as a joke to you brother. I used 1884 & 1844 before in my comments. I used swimming, fishing & sharks too. But I am sorry again for what I said.
To answer your question of, “Who ordered the correction in 1892?”
THE ANSWER: It was King Malietoa & the Government of Samoa,
“In the latest files of the ‘Samoan Times’ appears the Royal Proclamation: “Whereas through an error in reckoning the people of these islands have hitherto been using the wrong day and date as judged by our true position in longitude; Now, therefore, to rectify this error, and in accordance with the express desire of the Municipal Council of Apia and my Government, it is hereby proclaimed and ordered that Tuesday, the 5th of July next by present reckoning, shall be called Monday, the 4th of July, and the days and dates in the future shall be reckoned in succession from that day. That is, there shall be two days next month called Monday, the 4th of July. Malietoa, King of Samoa, Mulinuu, June 16th, 1892.” Taranaki Herald, Volume XLI, Issue 9481, 29 August 1892, pg. 2.
God Bless…brother Steve
Thanks Steve God bless you!
I have just got back from another blessed Sabbath, worshipping together with Gods people at our Saturday Sabbath Multiculture Church. We were blessed today with visitors from Wellington and Napier.
I have been given permission to announce the process has started for the return of 2 more churches in Savaii to Gods true Sabbath.(More details later) Amalgamation without Gods Spirit is uncomfortable for many caught in the easy road, and though the odds have been stacked against Sabbath keepers here in Samoa they are now starting to even up.
Pastors here in Samoa and mission workers have always had the added weight, of having their income threatened when they stood against the mission and its introduction of the sunday apostacy. As of tomoro a committee will be in place dealing with any pastors and their flocks as and when they return to Gods endtime remnant Sabbath. These pastors have families to feed and bills to pay!
Many of our sunday churches here in Samoa have begun amalgamating with other faiths in holding galas and money raising events together on the Saturday Sabbath, the joining and amalgamation is growing stronger and the introduction of sunday laws is getting closer and closer.
Already through human nature and the embarassment of being wrong Saturday Sabbath keepers have experienced anger along with physical and verbal abuse, the other sunday churches (outside oue SDA church) do not yet think of the Sabbath keepers as a nuisance yet, but when they do and sunday laws are enforced will the Sunday keeping seventh day adventists be at the front of the persecution?
It has become obvious that few stubborn SPD and STM leaders still dont see the apostacy that they have entrenched Gods Samoan and Tongan people in, a call is going out for Tongans strong in Gods truth to make a stand for Gods endtime Sabbath in your homeland. The road is never easy but the eternal reward is great, and the power of God is made known in standing for HIS truth.
God is in control and in these trying times HE is purging a lot of us with HIS Holy fire.
On a personal note tuesday Sabbath school lesson this week cut right to my heart and opened up more understanding for me. The E G White quote “All who in this world render true service to God or man, receive a preparatory training in the school of sorrow. The weightier the trust and the higher the service, the closer is the test and the more severe the discipline.” Two months before we stood against this 2011 sunday apostacy in Gods church , Elena Grace Cutts my beautiful 2 year old baby drowned in our fishpond, my heart still breaks everyday when I remember finding her, but I know God has an eternal plan and all understanding I leave with HIM. Till the day that the angel brings my princess back into my arms I and my family will stand against the odds for HIS eternal truth.So many who stood in support of our loss and sorrow stood on the side of the sunday sabbath, but I see the Spirit of God working on many and all hearts. The big decision is will we put business or sport before our stand for Gods Holiness and HIS true nature displayed to a dying world!TIME IS SHORT!
Blessings from Samoa
Something to think about: Just because King Malietoa was persuaded that “the people of these islands have hitherto been using the wrong day and date” doesn’t mean that there was really anything wrong with the calendar previous to 1892.
After all, there’s no reason to consider his opinion to be more “correct” than that of Tuilaepa Lupesoliai Sailele Malielegaoi, the current prime minister. 😉
And I don’t think it matters one way or another. Jesus said that the Sabbath was “made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” I believe that the most obvious way to interpret this is that the Sabbath was made for humanity, that is human society, and it is to be kept in a manner that benefits man and honours God in human society.
Thus, in order to keep the seventh day holy, it must be the seventh day that is recognized as such in that society. To keep the first day of the local calendar is not keeping the seventh-day Sabbath, no matter how many arguments are advanced in favour of such a plan.
Inge wrote:
Amen! Does God expect every one of His people to understand and obey complicated arguments? The truth must be simple enough for a child to understand.
SDA is a church made up of members who select the leaders and not the other way round.
No members, no church, no Leaders.
Most Leaders tend to forget that the power is with the people, (members) and not the leaders, but the way they behave and govern they think they have the final say and what they say, goes.
SPD / STM behave as such forgetting that whoever is in office now will be replaced by someone else when the members go to vote.
Leny,
Why are you so adamant that the Saturday Sabbath Keepers are to move out of the church?
They belong here -this is their home and church.
There’s a lot that you dont know about the history of Samoa, the Adventist church and the negative effect on the church by the poor decision by the SPD.
The so-called “minority” that you referred to in Samoa is not a minority as they represent the Global Samoan Adventist Family (NZ,OZ,Hawaii,USA,DUBAI) as well as the Global Seventh-day Adventist Family worldwide.
These special people are 3rd and 4th generation Adventists. Their forefathers are Adventist pioneers who accepted the Sabbath truth from God through the missionaries. They are Sabbath legends, heroes and warriors who were very brave to accept the Sabbath message, worship God on Saturday when everyone else in Samoa kept Sunday. They know what it’s like to be like Daniel – a lone Adventist family in the whole village or district surrounded by Sunday keepers of different faiths who ostracised, dished out daily verbal abuse, slashed their taro and banana plantation, toilet in their drinking pond, even drumming up false charges and took them to court becos of the Sabbath Truth. Disowned by families becos of the Sabbath, even been threatened. The word ” Sapati” “Sabbath” was a swear word to a lot of Samoans.
For over 100 years that these Legends toiled and kept the faith, the Samoan people not only respected and accepted the honesty, faithfulness and commitment of these Sabbath Keepers but have accepted the Sabbath truths becos of the work done by the Holy Spirit through the lives of these Legends.
The Keepers of the faith were the same people that stood against the “Independent Church” becos of Leadership issues are also the same people who are standing against the Sunday Movement initiated by SPD/TPUM/SPD on the Sabbath Issue which does not affect only the Adventist church in Samoa but also the Seventh-day Adventist Church globally.
You referred to the ACA or a legal entity – nothing new; its been around for years. We own the ACA, Sanitarium & the lot.
[Editor’s note: Please use first and last name when posting comments on this site.]
The whole issue is really a non-issue to anyone who can use the power of reason. The Bible assumes a flat Earth, and does not propose an International Date Line. It does not provide an objective way to calculate Sabbath anywhere. So when we start and finish it, is always a man-made decision. Think of areas beyond the polar circle, like Siberia, Alaska, or northern Sweden, where it is dark for 6 months and then the sun won’t set for another 6. Celebrating a Sabbath “from sunset to sunset” would mean a whole year of Sabbath – but only every 7 years! In Samoa we have another absurd situation – islands on both sides of the IDL on the same day can have two different dates (and days of the week). I think the SDA church should reconsider its principles, as some of them do not belong in the modern world. When you decide to keep your Sabbath just doesn’t matter – if only because you cannot objectively prove that your idea is right.
You make a good point regarding having to use common sense in determining the Sabbath. However, your statement that “the Bible assumes a flat Earth” is no more than an urban legend.
In Isaiah 40:22 we read that “It is He [God] who sits above the circle of the earth,” demonstrating a sophisticated understanding of the spherical nature of the earth. Furthermore, the oldest book of the Bible, in Job 26:7 refers to “He [God] stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.” This further demonstrates a basic understanding of the earth floating in space.
As I understand it, in the polar regions, people figure the beginning and ending of the Sabbath according to the sun’s lowest point on the horizon — which is just another way of identifying “sunset.”
I take issue with your statement that “when you decide to keep your Sabbath doesn’t matter” because the command for keeping the Sabbath is embedded in the heart of the Law of God.
Just a question: Do you believe it possible to know which is the first day of the week?
If you can tell which is the first day of the week, then knowing which is the seventh day of the week, isn’t all that difficult, is it?
First of all, apologies for not using the full name previously – I was simply not aware of the rules.
Flat earth is not an urban legend. It is clearly assumed by all biblical writers. In the Bible the Earth is flat, immoveable, covered with a solid, colander-like firmament, and it rests on pillars (perhaps over empty space, as in Job). What the writers don’t seem to agree on is whether it is a circle (a circle is flat, the Bible never calls the Earth a sphere), or a square. The Sabbath-keeping conceived as keeping a particular seventh day (as opposed to resting just any 7 days) also required a flat earth. Not sure what you mean by “sun’s lowest point on the horizon”. Beyond the polar circle the sun sets and remains set for 6 months before it rises and remains over the horizon for another 6. So “from sunset to sunset” would mean a seventh-day for a year every seventh year. The official recommendation and practice of the SDA church is simply to ignore the Bible, follow the local time reckoning, and have a Sabbath from 6 pm to 6 pm on the local Saturday, regardless of the position of the sun. It is not my mission to tell any church how and when to rest, I just can’t keep silent when people argue over what is deeply absurd. The creation story is not literal history, as it would never have been possible to have 6 literal days of creation and 1 literal day of rest on a spherical Earth – simply because where there is middle of the day in Europe, it is middle of the night around the IDL, and whether it is the day before or after Europe is something only locals can decide. So Samoan SDA’s simply argue over a non-issue. Not surprisingly, the rest of the community just shrugs their shoulders and gets on with their lives.
Yes, it is possible to know which is the first day of the week – the one we, the society, decide it is. There is no other good answer, Even if you were living in Jerusalem the Bible does not tell you how to decide which day of the week it is. We are all relying on a human tradition. Just imagine you are shipwrecked on a desert island, you wake up and decide you were unconscious for a long time. Will God, the Bible, or anything else tell you which day of the week it is if there is no society around you?